Dr. Peter Gorenflos is a maxillofacial surgeon in Berlin and Editor of Karlheinz Deschners book “God and the Fascists”, “Тэнгэр бурхантай ба фашистуудтай цугтаа” (Mongolian edition).
When he came to Mongolia in September, we talked about the book he worked as an editor, specifically about the history of the Vatican, the history of the Pope, and the history of Catholicism that most of us don't know about.
- Let's start the interview about the Vatican's history.
- The history of the Papal States began around 1200 years ago, and the basis of the Vatican was the so-called Donation of Constantine. This was a falsification of a document. The Popes then said that the emperor Constantine, who was a Roman emperor at this time, in the 4th century gave to the Vatican a lot of land because the emperor was healed from a severe disease by the Pope. But this Donation of Constantine, it's proven and is known since the 14th century was a fraud, it was a falsification, and the Vatican only admitted this in the 19th century.
So, the basis of the Papal States is the falsification of a document, this Donation of Constantine, which was their foundation in the 8th century. Then the Vatican expanded its territory, it grew by diplomacy, by religious wars, too, and then later by the Inquisition, in which the land and the money of the victims of the Inquisition, a Catholic tribunal, was confiscated by the Vatican.
This is how the Vatican came about and this went on until the 18th century. The first break was done by the French Revolution. During the French Revolution, Napoleon, the French emperor, arrested Pope Pius VI, and brought him to Valence, a town in the south of France.
One could call the Vatican a criminal organization, and it's very strong. It has assets of about $500 billion. So, it can establish its organization, its churches, anywhere in the world. This is what they are doing, and this is what they try to do in Mongolia.
And then the Papal States were divided up between France and Italy. After Napoleon lost the war in Waterloo, there was a conference called the Congress of Vienna. There the Papal States were restored between 1815-1816. And then again, those reactionary medieval Papal States existed until the foundation of the national state of Italy in 1870.
In 1870, Garibaldi, the leader of the national movement in Italy, dissolved the Vatican again and he founded the national state of Italy with Rome in its center as the capital. Between 1860 and 1870, the Vatican state already diminished to the area of the City of Rome.
But after the conquest of Rome by Garibaldi and his troops, the Vatican State was dissolved again. All that was left was the Holy See as a religious institution. This meant that the Pope was still alive and he was still head of Catholicism, but there was no state anymore. The Holy See still existed. But the Vatican State, the Papal states, were abolished by the national movement. This problem was called the Roman Question which came about in 1870. I think the most important for the Mongolian people or for the whole world, is to know that the Vatican state was restored by the Italian fascist Mussolini in 1929.
The problem is that in the last century, there was a very close cooperation between the Vatican and the fascists. The Vatican is not just any state like the USA, Germany or Mongolia. It’s really a very dangerous state. Catholicism is, in my eyes, a very dangerous religion. And I think it's worthwhile warning the Mongolian people about the Popes because the Popes always cooperate with reactionary forces. This is what they did in Italy, and this is what they did in Germany. Without the Pope, and in this time, it was Pope Pius XI, there would not have been Italian fascism, there would not have been a dictator Mussolini, there would not have been Hitler, no chance without the Vatican.
One could call the Vatican a criminal organization, and it's very strong. It has assets of about $500 billion. So, it can establish its organization, its churches, anywhere in the world. This is what they are doing, and this is what they try to do in Mongolia.
But before I should perhaps explain how the cooperation worked. Mussolini was the first fascist. Last century, he established Italian fascism. In the beginning of the 20th century, especially after World War I a new movement of the working class in Europe started. It was successful in the Soviet Union, but there were working class movements all around Europe, in every country, in Italy too. Mussolini first was a member of the Socialist Party, but he broke away from this party because he took a stance for the entrance of Italy into World War I and the Italian socialists didn't want to participate in this war. So he had to leave the Socialist Party and he founded his own party which was the fascist movement in 1919. This movement was strongly anti-socialist and Mussolini turned from a socialist into an opportunist and he saw that without Catholicism, without the Pope, he wouldn't have a chance to come to power.
From the beginning on there was a very close cooperation with the Vatican and Mr. Ratti had already become aware of Mussolini when he was Cardinal in Milano, i.e. before he became Pope in 1922, Pope Pius XI. A very close cooperation began because Mussolini was prepared to take the Roman Question on the agenda: What should one do with what was left of the Papal States. The answer of this question is the cornerstone of the cooperation between the Pope, between the Vatican and Italian fascism.
How did this work? Mussolini had the support of the Vatican and he came to power with violence. The starting point was the march on Rome in October 1922. Later he initiated an electoral reform which said that the party which had the most votes should automatically have two-thirds of the seats in parliament which has nothing to do with parliamentary democracy. The catholic party – Partito Popolare - first opposed to this reform, but under the pressure of the Vatican a lot of MP of the Catholic party decided to vote for this reform, too. That's the way he came to power and he did this with the Popes support and also with the support of the Catholic press in Italy. Then in 1924 there was an extreme crisis in the fascist party because Giacomo Matteotti was killed. He was very popular and a member of Parliament, member of the Socialist Party, he was also a criminal law professor, and he was a very strong opponent of Mussolini in the Parliament. So, he was killed, and everybody knew that it was on order of the fascist Mussolini.
In this situation a coalition between the Catholic Party which was called Partito Populare and the Socialist Party started against Mussolini, and this would have been his end. Such a coalition would have exerted pressure on the Italian King, Victor Emanuel, to dismiss Mussolini from his position as Prime Minister and to have him arrested.
- What was the Pope doing at that time?
- The Pope, already one year before in 1923, withdrew the founder and leader of the Catholic party, Partito Populare, from his position, which hit this party very strongly because the priest Don Sturzo took a stance against the fascists and he was also not prepared to put the Roman Question on the agenda in contrast to Mussolini. During the crisis following the assassination of Matteotti in 1924, the Pope withdrew all priests from the Catholic Party of Italy, which was tantamount to the dissolution of this party, because most members of the Parliament of the Partito Populare, were priests. In this way, the Pope prevented the coalition between the socialists and of the Catholic Party. This was the only way for Mussolini to survive this crisis politically.
The career of Mussolini would have ended in 1924 if the Pope had not intervened and if he had not neutralized the influence of the Catholic Party. This paved the way for the dictatorship of Mussolini.
Five years later as a reward for this cooperation, the Lateran Accords were concluded in Rome, and in those Lateran Accords, the statehood of the Vatican was restored. The Roman Question, this cornerstone of cooperation between fascism and the Pope was answered in all aspects to the advantage of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was again a state for itself, and it was given the incredible amount of 2 billion lira and this was money from the state, tax money, which is about 2 billion dollars nowadays. It was the fundament of the Vatican Bank. It was Mussolini, the Italian fascist, who was responsible for the restitution of the Vatican State!
There are two sides of one coin, the religious side means that the Pope is the head of Catholicism, the Holy See. And the other side of the coin is the Vatican State, which is the statehood with all the privileges, the immunity and all this, the Pope as a leader of a state, as a sovereign of what we know nowadays as the Vatican State. The head of this state just came to Mongolia in September 2023. This state is definitely the product of Italian fascism of the first half of the 20th century.
Without the Vatican and without Pius XI and later Pius XII there would not have been a dictator Adolf Hitler.
I think everybody should know this, and I'm sure that not many Mongolians are aware of this fact. Even in Europe and the US, many people still don't know about this history. This is very crucial to understand what the Vatican is, how it came to existence, and what intentions it has. According to my conviction, it is a criminal organization, not just a religion, as any other religion. And the book mentioned above, which I republished ten years ago in Germany, the US, Italy, Poland, Czeck Republic, Russia, and Mongolia, clearly proves my convictions. What happened in Italy, the Popes paving the way for the dictatorship of Mussolini, was repeated in Germany towards Hitler and German fascism. Without the Vatican and without Pius XI and later Pius XII there would not have been a dictator Adolf Hitler.
- Do you think, that the Vatican still tries to support reactionary forces in other countries of the world?
- It's at least a way to gain influence in other countries, anywhere in the world. Because the philosophy of Catholicism, this is another issue that has top priority, is that all people should subdue to Catholicism. Imperialism means that first the Catholic missionaries are coming – or generally speaking the Christian missionaries - and then either foreign soldiers are following or foreign politicians who “buy” local politicians, the modern kind of imperialism. But this is still another question. There is a historical side of how it came to existence. How did it behave in the last century? How did fascists cooperate with the Churches? And then there is the religious side, which is also very important, but this is another issue we still have to talk about later.
- How did the Vatican cooperate with Hitler?
- In Germany, in the Weimar Republic i.e., in the 1920ies there was a very strong workers movement. The Socialist and Communist Party. And the big money, the industrialists, the bankers, the landowners, they were afraid of a civil war and of a development, as we did have it in the Soviet Union. So, they were looking for somebody to prevent this development and they had a look to Italy and there it was Mussolini. In Germany it was Hitler who took a stance against the Communist Party. Not only against the Communist Party but against liberals, Jews and human progress at all. And so how did they manage it? In the 1920ies in Germany, the nuncio was Eugenio Pacelli, “ambassador” of the Vatican or of the Holy See because the Vatican didn't exist until 1929 as a state, as we already discussed. So, the nuncio in Berlin was Eugenio Pacelli who became later in 1939, Pope Pius XII. And this nuncio was closely befriended with prelate (priest) Ludwig Kaas who was the head of the Catholic party in the Weimar Republic, the Centre Party, as Don Sturzo, the Sicilian priest, was the head of the Catholic party in Italy.
Via this connecting line: “Pacelli and Kaas”, the Vatican took influence on the policy in the Weimar Republic. During the late 1920ies the Communists got stronger and the Center Party got weaker. And there were mind games about a “Querfront” (crossfront) government with Schleicher and other people at the top. But everybody knew that Hitler was the man who could destroy the workers movement most efficiently by violence. And we had this model from Italy ten years earlier, because Mussolini used violence to come to power and to prevent the workers movements triumph, its political victory as in Russia.
- What did happen at that time?
- Franz von Papen, as he saw that the left parties got stronger and the bourgeois parties got weaker, asked Paul von Hindenburg, who was the Reichspresident of Germany since 1925, a very old man and a general in World War I, to receive Hitler. Hindenburg didn't like Hitler. Hindenburg was general and Hitler was a simple soldier during the First World War and he even didn't develop to an officer, he didn't go up in the hierarchy of the military. But Franz von Papen, a former member of the Catholic Party, asked Hindenburg to talk with Hitler to receive him. And then end of January 1933, Hindenburg really made Hitler to the Chancellor of the country. This was actually the end of democracy. Hitler became Chancellor on January 1933, and then the basic laws were abolished by Hitler using some emergency paragraphs in the constitution. In February 28, we had the Reichstag's fire, and it was clearly staged by the Nazis. There’s clear evidence for this. But Hitler said, no, those evil Communists were responsible, and we have to get rid of those people. Then there was a new election on March 5, and the Communist Party received 12.3% of the votes, which means 81 seats of the Reichstag (i.e. Kroll Opera after the fire). But Hitler illegally annulled those 81 seats and removed illegally the immunity of members of parliament of the Communist Party and put them into concentration camps. But the problem for Hitler was that this was not enough, because the Nazi Party received just 43% in that election in March. And with 43%, you can't change the constitution. If you want to change the Constitution, you have to have a two-thirds majority.
And now we really see the Vatican trying to invade this country, Mongolia. I was really shocked when they planned this journey to Mongolia. I didn't know that the Pope would come.
- What did he exactly do?
- He cooperated with the Catholic party, the Center party. It was definitely a similar procedure as in Italy. Hitler proposed the Enabling Act on March 23. And the Enabling Act meant that Hitler could do everything that he wanted, which would mean the dictatorship of Hitler, would mean that the other parties should be dissolved. And this Enabling Act was concluded on March 23, together with the Catholic party.
So, the Nazi Party together with the Center Party, which was the analogue to the Italian Partito popolare, which was the German Catholic Party, both together made the Enabling Act possible. And it was Ludwig Kaas, the head of the Catholic Party, who instructed his party to vote for the Enabling Act. So, after March 23, Hitler could do nearly everything that he wanted. And only three months later even the Center Party dissolved itself, on the advice of the Catholic priest, Ludwig Kaas. After the Catholic Party dissolved itself, Kaas had just a conference with Hitler to the astonishment of the members of the party. And then the prelate Ludwig Kaas went down to Rome and continued his career. He became Secretary of the Cardinals College which votes for a new Pope when the Pope dies. He also became canon of the St. Peter’s Cathedral. So he made a very successful career in the Vatican after he had contributed crucially to the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler. It is very important to understand, that without the support of the Vatican, Pope Pius XI, Eugenio Pacelli (the later Pope Pius XII.), Ludwig Kaas, Franz von Papen, Hitler's dictatorship would not have been possible. Without those “gentlemen”, we would not have had Hitler, we would not have had the World War II as well and all those developments that were following inclusively the Holocaust, the genocide, the mass murder of the Jewish population in Europe.
As soon as Hitler was in power, a “concordat” (treaty, pact) with the Vatican was concluded. You can also call it the Hitler Concordat between the Third Reich and the Vatican. It was made clear that there were friendly relations between the Hitler state and the Vatican. And that the Catholics should withdraw from party life. They should just have their pastoral autonomy and they should keep out of politics. And then it was also constituted that state religious education was implemented in schools and in 1934 it was decided by the Nazis that church taxes were collected by the state, which is still done nowadays in Germany.
The thing is that Christianity/Catholicism is something everybody should know about. And now we really see the Vatican trying to invade this country, Mongolia. I was really shocked when they planned this journey to Mongolia. I didn't know that the Pope would come. We came to Mongolia end of August, and I heard on social media that the Pope would come to Mongolia, too. I was absolutely alarmed. And I will still try to have TV interviews about this issue. I think it is important to warn Mongolian people, which I like very much, not only because I have a Mongolian lady friend. I think it's really important to warn the Mongolians about the Vatican, about the Pope, and about Christianity itself.
That's still not a problem. But it's like a pandemic. First it begins small and simple and then it's spreading out. It's like a drug.
Let me say some other things about the other countries in East Asia. In the Philippines, there are already large numbers of Catholics because the Vatican has been active there for centuries by the Portuguese and by others. In Korea you have 30% of the population as Christians. Not only Catholics especially, but also Catholics. But they are Christians. Mongolia is still a hotspot of reason, of intelligence, of enlightenment.
And it makes sense to stop the invasion of Christianity and Catholicism in this country where we already have around 1300 members of the Catholic church. That's still not a problem. But it's like a pandemic. First it begins small and simple and then it's spreading out. It's like a drug.
Mongolians should know about one central pillar of Christianity and Catholicism, which is a branch of Christianity. Please keep this in your mind: In Christianity there is the central idea of the original sin. It means that all people, men and women, are born guilty. You really have to imagine: a baby is born and cries. The Pope says, that this baby is guilty because of the original sin, because in the bible Eva seduced Adam. The only remedy to escape this guilt is the believe in Jesus Christ. If you don’t believe in Jesus Christ you are condemned to eternal pain and misery and an afterlife in hell. Without converting to Catholicism you are lost forever. But Jesus Christ is not a historical person as Napoleon or Genghis Khan or Joe Biden. He is a fantasy figure, invented by Paul, a person who lived 2000 years ago and transformed a historical Jewish person, Jesus, in a fantasy figure according to the old Greek mystery religions and cults. By the feeling of guilt and by the lie that one can only be solved by believing in this Christian phantom, this Christian ghost, Jesus Christ, Christianity creates helplessness and dependency. That's like a pandemic, which is spreading out. And I think it has to be stopped right in time.
They have the right to be upset about what I'm saying, but I can prove everything I say.
Mongolia has the chance to stop it right in time because the Philippines and Korea are probably already lost. I don't know, maybe there will be a change once in a while. But in Mongolia, you can still stop it right in time. And you have to have all the information we have been talking about today in this interview. Maybe Christians are a little bit upset. They have the right to be upset about what I'm saying, but I can prove everything I say. Christians, they believe. Either you want to know something, or you want to believe. If you want to know something, you have to have studies in history and sciences and all this, or you want to believe. If you want to believe, you just have to repeat what other people are saying or your priests or any authorities are saying.
If Christians are upset, that's their problem. That's not our problem. I’m upset by Christianity because it's really a pandemic and it's a dangerous political movement, too. So, I'm upset by this, and I do my work for enlightenment. Christians may be upset by what I'm saying. I’m sure they are. They have the right to be. It is their problem, not ours. They don’t like the truth.
- Please tell us about the book and author.
- Karlheinz Deschner is a church critic, a very well-known church critic, a German church critic. He died about ten years ago and he wrote lots of books about this issue. There is a book series, ten volumes, the Criminal History of Christianity. So, he's one of the most famous men for this issue. He's not only well known in Germany, but he’s also well known in Europe. In 2013, I published the book in the United States, too. So, he's already known in the United States as well.
- How many countries has this book published in?
- I bought the rights in 2010. The book was written first in 1965, 50 years ago. But it's completely up to date. It’s not something old-fashioned. It’s definitely up to date. And then I bought the rights about 13 years ago and I first republished the book in Germany. It sells very well in Germany. Then it was republished in Poland and then in the Czech Republic in the Czech language. And then the next step was that it was brought over the Atlantic and had a publication in the US. Prometheus Books published the book in the United States in 2013. The next step was the publication in Italy. It’s very important because Italy is the land of the Vatican. Afterwards, it was published in Russia.
I am very proud that together with Bayarsaikhan Publishing I published the book “God and the Fascists” in Mongolia under the title “Тэнгэрбурхантай ба фашистуудтай цугтаа”. I recommend this book strongly to all Mongolians!
- My last question is about your religion. What is your religion?
- I am not a religious person. You don’t have to believe anything at all. I think humans are a very interesting species. So, I'm adherent to the natural sciences, and of course, I want to have a better, fair human mankind, maximum happiness for maximum majority. This is the socialist ideal we should all fight for. I don’t want exploitation of humans by humans, I contest the legitimacy of wars. This has to stop forever. And I think that socialism could be the right way to solve the problems we have on earth, to overcome the difficulties between different people. But I'm not a religious person. When I talk about religion, I usually talk about monotheism, meaning Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, because Buddhism, and Lamaism, it's completely different. It’s much more tolerant than competing monotheisms but I don't think you have to have a religion. But if you want to have a religion, please not Christianity.
- Thank you for the interview.
Dr. Peter Gorenflos is a maxillofacial surgeon in Berlin and Editor of Karlheinz Deschners book “God and the Fascists”, “Тэнгэр бурхантай ба фашистуудтай цугтаа” (Mongolian edition).
When he came to Mongolia in September, we talked about the book he worked as an editor, specifically about the history of the Vatican, the history of the Pope, and the history of Catholicism that most of us don't know about.
- Let's start the interview about the Vatican's history.
- The history of the Papal States began around 1200 years ago, and the basis of the Vatican was the so-called Donation of Constantine. This was a falsification of a document. The Popes then said that the emperor Constantine, who was a Roman emperor at this time, in the 4th century gave to the Vatican a lot of land because the emperor was healed from a severe disease by the Pope. But this Donation of Constantine, it's proven and is known since the 14th century was a fraud, it was a falsification, and the Vatican only admitted this in the 19th century.
So, the basis of the Papal States is the falsification of a document, this Donation of Constantine, which was their foundation in the 8th century. Then the Vatican expanded its territory, it grew by diplomacy, by religious wars, too, and then later by the Inquisition, in which the land and the money of the victims of the Inquisition, a Catholic tribunal, was confiscated by the Vatican.
This is how the Vatican came about and this went on until the 18th century. The first break was done by the French Revolution. During the French Revolution, Napoleon, the French emperor, arrested Pope Pius VI, and brought him to Valence, a town in the south of France.
One could call the Vatican a criminal organization, and it's very strong. It has assets of about $500 billion. So, it can establish its organization, its churches, anywhere in the world. This is what they are doing, and this is what they try to do in Mongolia.
And then the Papal States were divided up between France and Italy. After Napoleon lost the war in Waterloo, there was a conference called the Congress of Vienna. There the Papal States were restored between 1815-1816. And then again, those reactionary medieval Papal States existed until the foundation of the national state of Italy in 1870.
In 1870, Garibaldi, the leader of the national movement in Italy, dissolved the Vatican again and he founded the national state of Italy with Rome in its center as the capital. Between 1860 and 1870, the Vatican state already diminished to the area of the City of Rome.
But after the conquest of Rome by Garibaldi and his troops, the Vatican State was dissolved again. All that was left was the Holy See as a religious institution. This meant that the Pope was still alive and he was still head of Catholicism, but there was no state anymore. The Holy See still existed. But the Vatican State, the Papal states, were abolished by the national movement. This problem was called the Roman Question which came about in 1870. I think the most important for the Mongolian people or for the whole world, is to know that the Vatican state was restored by the Italian fascist Mussolini in 1929.
The problem is that in the last century, there was a very close cooperation between the Vatican and the fascists. The Vatican is not just any state like the USA, Germany or Mongolia. It’s really a very dangerous state. Catholicism is, in my eyes, a very dangerous religion. And I think it's worthwhile warning the Mongolian people about the Popes because the Popes always cooperate with reactionary forces. This is what they did in Italy, and this is what they did in Germany. Without the Pope, and in this time, it was Pope Pius XI, there would not have been Italian fascism, there would not have been a dictator Mussolini, there would not have been Hitler, no chance without the Vatican.
One could call the Vatican a criminal organization, and it's very strong. It has assets of about $500 billion. So, it can establish its organization, its churches, anywhere in the world. This is what they are doing, and this is what they try to do in Mongolia.
But before I should perhaps explain how the cooperation worked. Mussolini was the first fascist. Last century, he established Italian fascism. In the beginning of the 20th century, especially after World War I a new movement of the working class in Europe started. It was successful in the Soviet Union, but there were working class movements all around Europe, in every country, in Italy too. Mussolini first was a member of the Socialist Party, but he broke away from this party because he took a stance for the entrance of Italy into World War I and the Italian socialists didn't want to participate in this war. So he had to leave the Socialist Party and he founded his own party which was the fascist movement in 1919. This movement was strongly anti-socialist and Mussolini turned from a socialist into an opportunist and he saw that without Catholicism, without the Pope, he wouldn't have a chance to come to power.
From the beginning on there was a very close cooperation with the Vatican and Mr. Ratti had already become aware of Mussolini when he was Cardinal in Milano, i.e. before he became Pope in 1922, Pope Pius XI. A very close cooperation began because Mussolini was prepared to take the Roman Question on the agenda: What should one do with what was left of the Papal States. The answer of this question is the cornerstone of the cooperation between the Pope, between the Vatican and Italian fascism.
How did this work? Mussolini had the support of the Vatican and he came to power with violence. The starting point was the march on Rome in October 1922. Later he initiated an electoral reform which said that the party which had the most votes should automatically have two-thirds of the seats in parliament which has nothing to do with parliamentary democracy. The catholic party – Partito Popolare - first opposed to this reform, but under the pressure of the Vatican a lot of MP of the Catholic party decided to vote for this reform, too. That's the way he came to power and he did this with the Popes support and also with the support of the Catholic press in Italy. Then in 1924 there was an extreme crisis in the fascist party because Giacomo Matteotti was killed. He was very popular and a member of Parliament, member of the Socialist Party, he was also a criminal law professor, and he was a very strong opponent of Mussolini in the Parliament. So, he was killed, and everybody knew that it was on order of the fascist Mussolini.
In this situation a coalition between the Catholic Party which was called Partito Populare and the Socialist Party started against Mussolini, and this would have been his end. Such a coalition would have exerted pressure on the Italian King, Victor Emanuel, to dismiss Mussolini from his position as Prime Minister and to have him arrested.
- What was the Pope doing at that time?
- The Pope, already one year before in 1923, withdrew the founder and leader of the Catholic party, Partito Populare, from his position, which hit this party very strongly because the priest Don Sturzo took a stance against the fascists and he was also not prepared to put the Roman Question on the agenda in contrast to Mussolini. During the crisis following the assassination of Matteotti in 1924, the Pope withdrew all priests from the Catholic Party of Italy, which was tantamount to the dissolution of this party, because most members of the Parliament of the Partito Populare, were priests. In this way, the Pope prevented the coalition between the socialists and of the Catholic Party. This was the only way for Mussolini to survive this crisis politically.
The career of Mussolini would have ended in 1924 if the Pope had not intervened and if he had not neutralized the influence of the Catholic Party. This paved the way for the dictatorship of Mussolini.
Five years later as a reward for this cooperation, the Lateran Accords were concluded in Rome, and in those Lateran Accords, the statehood of the Vatican was restored. The Roman Question, this cornerstone of cooperation between fascism and the Pope was answered in all aspects to the advantage of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was again a state for itself, and it was given the incredible amount of 2 billion lira and this was money from the state, tax money, which is about 2 billion dollars nowadays. It was the fundament of the Vatican Bank. It was Mussolini, the Italian fascist, who was responsible for the restitution of the Vatican State!
There are two sides of one coin, the religious side means that the Pope is the head of Catholicism, the Holy See. And the other side of the coin is the Vatican State, which is the statehood with all the privileges, the immunity and all this, the Pope as a leader of a state, as a sovereign of what we know nowadays as the Vatican State. The head of this state just came to Mongolia in September 2023. This state is definitely the product of Italian fascism of the first half of the 20th century.
Without the Vatican and without Pius XI and later Pius XII there would not have been a dictator Adolf Hitler.
I think everybody should know this, and I'm sure that not many Mongolians are aware of this fact. Even in Europe and the US, many people still don't know about this history. This is very crucial to understand what the Vatican is, how it came to existence, and what intentions it has. According to my conviction, it is a criminal organization, not just a religion, as any other religion. And the book mentioned above, which I republished ten years ago in Germany, the US, Italy, Poland, Czeck Republic, Russia, and Mongolia, clearly proves my convictions. What happened in Italy, the Popes paving the way for the dictatorship of Mussolini, was repeated in Germany towards Hitler and German fascism. Without the Vatican and without Pius XI and later Pius XII there would not have been a dictator Adolf Hitler.
- Do you think, that the Vatican still tries to support reactionary forces in other countries of the world?
- It's at least a way to gain influence in other countries, anywhere in the world. Because the philosophy of Catholicism, this is another issue that has top priority, is that all people should subdue to Catholicism. Imperialism means that first the Catholic missionaries are coming – or generally speaking the Christian missionaries - and then either foreign soldiers are following or foreign politicians who “buy” local politicians, the modern kind of imperialism. But this is still another question. There is a historical side of how it came to existence. How did it behave in the last century? How did fascists cooperate with the Churches? And then there is the religious side, which is also very important, but this is another issue we still have to talk about later.
- How did the Vatican cooperate with Hitler?
- In Germany, in the Weimar Republic i.e., in the 1920ies there was a very strong workers movement. The Socialist and Communist Party. And the big money, the industrialists, the bankers, the landowners, they were afraid of a civil war and of a development, as we did have it in the Soviet Union. So, they were looking for somebody to prevent this development and they had a look to Italy and there it was Mussolini. In Germany it was Hitler who took a stance against the Communist Party. Not only against the Communist Party but against liberals, Jews and human progress at all. And so how did they manage it? In the 1920ies in Germany, the nuncio was Eugenio Pacelli, “ambassador” of the Vatican or of the Holy See because the Vatican didn't exist until 1929 as a state, as we already discussed. So, the nuncio in Berlin was Eugenio Pacelli who became later in 1939, Pope Pius XII. And this nuncio was closely befriended with prelate (priest) Ludwig Kaas who was the head of the Catholic party in the Weimar Republic, the Centre Party, as Don Sturzo, the Sicilian priest, was the head of the Catholic party in Italy.
Via this connecting line: “Pacelli and Kaas”, the Vatican took influence on the policy in the Weimar Republic. During the late 1920ies the Communists got stronger and the Center Party got weaker. And there were mind games about a “Querfront” (crossfront) government with Schleicher and other people at the top. But everybody knew that Hitler was the man who could destroy the workers movement most efficiently by violence. And we had this model from Italy ten years earlier, because Mussolini used violence to come to power and to prevent the workers movements triumph, its political victory as in Russia.
- What did happen at that time?
- Franz von Papen, as he saw that the left parties got stronger and the bourgeois parties got weaker, asked Paul von Hindenburg, who was the Reichspresident of Germany since 1925, a very old man and a general in World War I, to receive Hitler. Hindenburg didn't like Hitler. Hindenburg was general and Hitler was a simple soldier during the First World War and he even didn't develop to an officer, he didn't go up in the hierarchy of the military. But Franz von Papen, a former member of the Catholic Party, asked Hindenburg to talk with Hitler to receive him. And then end of January 1933, Hindenburg really made Hitler to the Chancellor of the country. This was actually the end of democracy. Hitler became Chancellor on January 1933, and then the basic laws were abolished by Hitler using some emergency paragraphs in the constitution. In February 28, we had the Reichstag's fire, and it was clearly staged by the Nazis. There’s clear evidence for this. But Hitler said, no, those evil Communists were responsible, and we have to get rid of those people. Then there was a new election on March 5, and the Communist Party received 12.3% of the votes, which means 81 seats of the Reichstag (i.e. Kroll Opera after the fire). But Hitler illegally annulled those 81 seats and removed illegally the immunity of members of parliament of the Communist Party and put them into concentration camps. But the problem for Hitler was that this was not enough, because the Nazi Party received just 43% in that election in March. And with 43%, you can't change the constitution. If you want to change the Constitution, you have to have a two-thirds majority.
And now we really see the Vatican trying to invade this country, Mongolia. I was really shocked when they planned this journey to Mongolia. I didn't know that the Pope would come.
- What did he exactly do?
- He cooperated with the Catholic party, the Center party. It was definitely a similar procedure as in Italy. Hitler proposed the Enabling Act on March 23. And the Enabling Act meant that Hitler could do everything that he wanted, which would mean the dictatorship of Hitler, would mean that the other parties should be dissolved. And this Enabling Act was concluded on March 23, together with the Catholic party.
So, the Nazi Party together with the Center Party, which was the analogue to the Italian Partito popolare, which was the German Catholic Party, both together made the Enabling Act possible. And it was Ludwig Kaas, the head of the Catholic Party, who instructed his party to vote for the Enabling Act. So, after March 23, Hitler could do nearly everything that he wanted. And only three months later even the Center Party dissolved itself, on the advice of the Catholic priest, Ludwig Kaas. After the Catholic Party dissolved itself, Kaas had just a conference with Hitler to the astonishment of the members of the party. And then the prelate Ludwig Kaas went down to Rome and continued his career. He became Secretary of the Cardinals College which votes for a new Pope when the Pope dies. He also became canon of the St. Peter’s Cathedral. So he made a very successful career in the Vatican after he had contributed crucially to the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler. It is very important to understand, that without the support of the Vatican, Pope Pius XI, Eugenio Pacelli (the later Pope Pius XII.), Ludwig Kaas, Franz von Papen, Hitler's dictatorship would not have been possible. Without those “gentlemen”, we would not have had Hitler, we would not have had the World War II as well and all those developments that were following inclusively the Holocaust, the genocide, the mass murder of the Jewish population in Europe.
As soon as Hitler was in power, a “concordat” (treaty, pact) with the Vatican was concluded. You can also call it the Hitler Concordat between the Third Reich and the Vatican. It was made clear that there were friendly relations between the Hitler state and the Vatican. And that the Catholics should withdraw from party life. They should just have their pastoral autonomy and they should keep out of politics. And then it was also constituted that state religious education was implemented in schools and in 1934 it was decided by the Nazis that church taxes were collected by the state, which is still done nowadays in Germany.
The thing is that Christianity/Catholicism is something everybody should know about. And now we really see the Vatican trying to invade this country, Mongolia. I was really shocked when they planned this journey to Mongolia. I didn't know that the Pope would come. We came to Mongolia end of August, and I heard on social media that the Pope would come to Mongolia, too. I was absolutely alarmed. And I will still try to have TV interviews about this issue. I think it is important to warn Mongolian people, which I like very much, not only because I have a Mongolian lady friend. I think it's really important to warn the Mongolians about the Vatican, about the Pope, and about Christianity itself.
That's still not a problem. But it's like a pandemic. First it begins small and simple and then it's spreading out. It's like a drug.
Let me say some other things about the other countries in East Asia. In the Philippines, there are already large numbers of Catholics because the Vatican has been active there for centuries by the Portuguese and by others. In Korea you have 30% of the population as Christians. Not only Catholics especially, but also Catholics. But they are Christians. Mongolia is still a hotspot of reason, of intelligence, of enlightenment.
And it makes sense to stop the invasion of Christianity and Catholicism in this country where we already have around 1300 members of the Catholic church. That's still not a problem. But it's like a pandemic. First it begins small and simple and then it's spreading out. It's like a drug.
Mongolians should know about one central pillar of Christianity and Catholicism, which is a branch of Christianity. Please keep this in your mind: In Christianity there is the central idea of the original sin. It means that all people, men and women, are born guilty. You really have to imagine: a baby is born and cries. The Pope says, that this baby is guilty because of the original sin, because in the bible Eva seduced Adam. The only remedy to escape this guilt is the believe in Jesus Christ. If you don’t believe in Jesus Christ you are condemned to eternal pain and misery and an afterlife in hell. Without converting to Catholicism you are lost forever. But Jesus Christ is not a historical person as Napoleon or Genghis Khan or Joe Biden. He is a fantasy figure, invented by Paul, a person who lived 2000 years ago and transformed a historical Jewish person, Jesus, in a fantasy figure according to the old Greek mystery religions and cults. By the feeling of guilt and by the lie that one can only be solved by believing in this Christian phantom, this Christian ghost, Jesus Christ, Christianity creates helplessness and dependency. That's like a pandemic, which is spreading out. And I think it has to be stopped right in time.
They have the right to be upset about what I'm saying, but I can prove everything I say.
Mongolia has the chance to stop it right in time because the Philippines and Korea are probably already lost. I don't know, maybe there will be a change once in a while. But in Mongolia, you can still stop it right in time. And you have to have all the information we have been talking about today in this interview. Maybe Christians are a little bit upset. They have the right to be upset about what I'm saying, but I can prove everything I say. Christians, they believe. Either you want to know something, or you want to believe. If you want to know something, you have to have studies in history and sciences and all this, or you want to believe. If you want to believe, you just have to repeat what other people are saying or your priests or any authorities are saying.
If Christians are upset, that's their problem. That's not our problem. I’m upset by Christianity because it's really a pandemic and it's a dangerous political movement, too. So, I'm upset by this, and I do my work for enlightenment. Christians may be upset by what I'm saying. I’m sure they are. They have the right to be. It is their problem, not ours. They don’t like the truth.
- Please tell us about the book and author.
- Karlheinz Deschner is a church critic, a very well-known church critic, a German church critic. He died about ten years ago and he wrote lots of books about this issue. There is a book series, ten volumes, the Criminal History of Christianity. So, he's one of the most famous men for this issue. He's not only well known in Germany, but he’s also well known in Europe. In 2013, I published the book in the United States, too. So, he's already known in the United States as well.
- How many countries has this book published in?
- I bought the rights in 2010. The book was written first in 1965, 50 years ago. But it's completely up to date. It’s not something old-fashioned. It’s definitely up to date. And then I bought the rights about 13 years ago and I first republished the book in Germany. It sells very well in Germany. Then it was republished in Poland and then in the Czech Republic in the Czech language. And then the next step was that it was brought over the Atlantic and had a publication in the US. Prometheus Books published the book in the United States in 2013. The next step was the publication in Italy. It’s very important because Italy is the land of the Vatican. Afterwards, it was published in Russia.
I am very proud that together with Bayarsaikhan Publishing I published the book “God and the Fascists” in Mongolia under the title “Тэнгэрбурхантай ба фашистуудтай цугтаа”. I recommend this book strongly to all Mongolians!
- My last question is about your religion. What is your religion?
- I am not a religious person. You don’t have to believe anything at all. I think humans are a very interesting species. So, I'm adherent to the natural sciences, and of course, I want to have a better, fair human mankind, maximum happiness for maximum majority. This is the socialist ideal we should all fight for. I don’t want exploitation of humans by humans, I contest the legitimacy of wars. This has to stop forever. And I think that socialism could be the right way to solve the problems we have on earth, to overcome the difficulties between different people. But I'm not a religious person. When I talk about religion, I usually talk about monotheism, meaning Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, because Buddhism, and Lamaism, it's completely different. It’s much more tolerant than competing monotheisms but I don't think you have to have a religion. But if you want to have a religion, please not Christianity.
- Thank you for the interview.