GoGo Mongolia interviewed Stefanie Burri Ph.D), Head of Swiss Cooperation Office in Mongolia. She arrived in Mongolia at the end of July.
The Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) is the Swiss governmental agency for international cooperation, an integral part of the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs. The SDC has been supporting Mongolia’s multi-sectoral reforms and national development following the country’s transition to a market economy.
-Did you want to work for SDC because you are an anthropologist? I think anthropologists have very interesting jobs as they go from one place to another, making observations.
-When I started studying anthropology, sociology and psychology 40 years ago, my parents told me that it was completely useless and that you will be jobless. They said you have to study law, economy or medicine. From the beginning, I liked learning about other people, seeing new countries’ cultural heritage, their thinking and their values. Why are they doing this, and not that? Because I think cultural diversity is immensely enriching. I learn a lot every time I have a chance to see different projects. It always opens your mind. Anthropology in Switzerland is one of the studies that you learn about other cultures, not necessarily only about past cultures, but about how people live currently.
We, at the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation, are a part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We believe that we need diverse professionals such as economists, agriculturists, and health specialists and so on. It is the diversity that adds value to the work we do. If you have five lawyers around the table, they all think the same way and their minds work similarly. Therefore, we think it is better to have a lawyer, an economist and an anthropologist etc. The different professions put together would make a real difference in the course of discussion. We also believe in having representation of different age groups and gender. It can be challenging at first, but the end result is worth it.
Mongolia and Switzerland are not exactly neighbors - quite far away in fact. My family had the same question for me about going to Mongolia.
We can think of it as a democratic system. You do not have just one party or two ruling parties. A number of parties work together, and they have to find a common solution. We have seven people in our government, each from different parties, and they have to find one common solution to present to the Parliament. In parliament, all the different parties have to discuss and agree on a solution. It is the richness of the different opinions that add value to this process.
Why did I come to Mongolia? A good question. Mongolia and Switzerland are not exactly neighbors - quite far away in fact. My family had the same question for me about going to Mongolia. Before coming here, I was working in Pakistan, a challenging place. We, as state employees, regardless of our position, stay at one place for a maximum four years and then rotate to another country.
-It sounds fair.
-It is also an effective way to prevent corruption and to share knowledge. You take your knowledge with you to the next assignment. I have been working in Latin America and Eastern Europe for about 10 years. So, I told my family “I do not see any problems, Mongolia is a beautiful country.
Everything I saw on the documentary film was exciting, and our programs are very interesting. We have a very traditional as well as new approaches to our programs. For example, we work on building energy efficiency, air pollution, and waste management projects. We have a good mix of different instruments. We are working on a number of projects with the government. Things are different compared to 20 years ago, when we mostly worked with NGOs, and small farmers, but not with the government. Today we are running an advanced program, using a different approach.
I told my family that Mongolia is the safest country in the world. I am very grateful to the Government of Mongolia, for the amazing work they are doing to protect the country and prevent COVID-19 pandemic. The numbers show that the government has made good choices.
I feel very lucky: I am in a beautiful country, with very nice people, a lot of sunshine, and it is safe. What else can I ask for?
-As you know, last June, the Mongolian People’s Party won the parliamentary election. The Chief of Cabinet, Minister Oyun-Erdene, mentioned during your meeting with him that in the development plan until 2024 MPP included implementing an e-governance system. How about Switzerland? Do you have such experiences?
-E-governance is an integral part of governance for us. It is one of the main pillars. If the governance is not healthy, the rest of the country does not work very well. You need a democratic country, and a strong government that has a professional and a technical capacity. We are talking about good governance practices, meaning that corruption is the main issue. People should expect the government to work in an organized, regulated way that obeys the law and rules set forth.
SDC is known globally for our investment in gender equality, protection of children’s rights and the governance sector. We are in the process of developing an updated strategy for the next four years between 2021-2024. We are transforming our diplomacy including a humanitarian instrument, and a bilateral development. We’re focusing on more commercially oriented initiatives such as public-private partnerships. In public-private partnership development, good governance is essential. If there is no stable economic environment, then the private sector will be a lot more hesitant to invest.
Switzerland, as a country, is not leading in the e-governance sector, in fact we are a little behind. I think the COVID-19 pandemic pushed us towards adapting to e-governance more. At our Head Office, we are taking big steps in that direction. In Switzerland, we have to work from home. The number of COVID-19 patients is increasing in Europe again. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs urged the public to stay home.
E-governance means access to data. It is a key part of our governance projects. For example, we implemented “Public Investment in Energy Efficiency” project and printed books. Public schools, and kindergartens are a part of our e-governance project. We believe that it’s important to have data transparency. It is not only the government that have access to data, but the public should also be able to access that data.
We published books to promote transparent budgeting. If the public is informed about the government spending, they can participate meaningfully in the policy-making process. Readers can follow what is happening in the education sector and education budgeting, and get answers to the question: “how is the government spending taxpayer’s money?” This also illustrates how well the government is functioning.
In Switzerland, the online system has been around for a while, namely for getting government issued certificates and passports. The bills are sent to your address and you do not have to leave your home. This eliminates the possibility of corruption. Everything is done electronically. You order and pay electronically, and the order comes in the mail.
In terms of data access, the public has been able to access data for a long time as well. I believe that the Government of Mongolia wants to promote e-governance, which is a positive sign. E-governance can help solve the problems related to lower level bureaucracy. The results can be very impactful.
Countries such as Japan, China are more advanced in the e-governance sector. However, regarding data access, we are ahead. For example, we can check our water quality through the system in my village. If the water quality is not good, people demand improvements. We are also informed about the government spending at the village and the national level. In other words, where is my tax money going? All that data is available to the public. Data access is the basis of democratic decision-making process.
-What are the main themes or sectors of focus for SDC until 2024?
-Our investment between 2018-2021 will be around 50 million francs. We are focusing on making the ongoing projects sustainable. We would like to put more efforts in our inclusive and sustainable vegetable cultivation and marketing project. We are trying to see where we can support the market at the national level, as well as in the international market. We just had the first meeting with the Mongolian Chamber of Commerce and Industry to see how we could support them and how we could work together.
Similarly, we will also look at the interests for Swiss brands, Swiss businesses and companies to come to Mongolia. The environment conducive to investment has to be here. As I said before, governance issues can be discouraging for potential investors.
I will be working over the next four years specifically to see if stronger connections can be made between the two countries’ research institutions. We would like to see technical research collaborations between research centers and companies. For example, Switzerland is known for its research on air pollution, and water management. Universities of Excellences is one of the top universities in the world. They have strong programs in medicine, mathematics, physics and engineering. They also offer scholarships, although only for PhD degrees. Even though we do not have private universities, the public universities are really good.
What I want to focus on is to make sure that the SDC program is concluded in a sustainable and responsible way. In other words, we would like to see a gradual process where our partners in the Mongolian Government are prepared to carry on the impacts of our programs.
We have top-level knowledge on water management and climate change issues. We want to bring in these knowledge and experiences to Mongolia.
-I know that the SDC has been doing humanitarian work since 2001 and established a Cooperation Office here in 2004. You mentioned in meetings with ministers that starting in 2024, the relationship between the two countries will be taking another step. Can you tell us more about it? Would the Cooperation Office in Mongolian be closed?
-The physical office will be closed. However, SDC will continue to be present. We will work indirectly through multilateral organizations such as UNDP, WHO, UNFPA, UNESCO, UNICEF and development banks in Mongolia. Switzerland is still one of the key contributors for these agencies, and we will continue to be one. For example, the donors created a COVID-19 response fund consisting of multi-donors. The UNDP Head Office will use this fund to assist the COVID-19 response here in Mongolia.
We strongly believe in SDG-2030. Mongolian and Swiss Governments both signed this document and now we share common goals. Achieving SDG-2030 is one of the core contributions that we would like to make. I personally hope that SDC is one of the instruments of our foreign policy. I hope to carry on the conversations on the import-export, networking, and connecting institutions and so on.
Mongolia and Switzerland established diplomatic relationship in 1964. Both countries are land locked and are surrounded by very powerful neighbors. We border Germany, France and Italy. We have similar problems and approaches. At the political level, relationships between Mongolia and Switzerland will continue – such as the political exchanges which we already established, and the meetings we hold every year in Bern or in Ulaanbaatar. Our embassy is in Beijing and that probably will not change.
-Your budget decreased slightly since 2015. What is the next four years’ budget for SDC?
-I can say that we still have a budget. It may not be a significant amount. A budget of 3 million or 5 million does not make a big difference. However, I believe that it is not the budget that makes the biggest difference. Human resources, the team, our efforts, our energies, and our knowledge are all what makes the difference and our team will stay.
Of course, our budget is small. Still, I think what we can bring our countries together. We have top-level knowledge on water management and climate change issues. We want to bring in these knowledge and experiences to Mongolia.
Switzerland committed to the SDG-2030. For this reason, we are focusing on the poorest countries in the world. This is another reason that the Swiss government decided to move our office to another country, namely increasing funding in some of the African countries. We are closing down all the Latin American country offices. Even countries like Nicaragua and Honduras where the situation is still really difficult. They have a much higher poverty rate. Mongolia is, of course, doing much better than some African countries. So, we decided to phase out in 2024 with the bilateral instruments.
When you work internationally, you also account for administration and monitoring costs. If you focus in 50 countries, you need much more funding. Reducing the cost of administration, for example by reducing the number of countries to ten, can make spending the same 100 dollars much more effective and efficient. We have always been criticized by OECD countries that we are losing focus and that we should focus on fewer countries. In Asia, we already closed the Pakistan office by the end of last year. Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Nepal offices will continue to operate. In Laos and Myanmar, we have been present for several years, although only through our Ministry of Finance.
In most Asian countries, we are not working in the health sector. Not because health is not important. When we start working in new countries, we are allowed only two domains of work. This is changing, and I think that will make our investment a lot more effective.
-Thank you so much.
GoGo Mongolia interviewed Stefanie Burri Ph.D), Head of Swiss Cooperation Office in Mongolia. She arrived in Mongolia at the end of July.
The Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC) is the Swiss governmental agency for international cooperation, an integral part of the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs. The SDC has been supporting Mongolia’s multi-sectoral reforms and national development following the country’s transition to a market economy.
-Did you want to work for SDC because you are an anthropologist? I think anthropologists have very interesting jobs as they go from one place to another, making observations.
-When I started studying anthropology, sociology and psychology 40 years ago, my parents told me that it was completely useless and that you will be jobless. They said you have to study law, economy or medicine. From the beginning, I liked learning about other people, seeing new countries’ cultural heritage, their thinking and their values. Why are they doing this, and not that? Because I think cultural diversity is immensely enriching. I learn a lot every time I have a chance to see different projects. It always opens your mind. Anthropology in Switzerland is one of the studies that you learn about other cultures, not necessarily only about past cultures, but about how people live currently.
We, at the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation, are a part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We believe that we need diverse professionals such as economists, agriculturists, and health specialists and so on. It is the diversity that adds value to the work we do. If you have five lawyers around the table, they all think the same way and their minds work similarly. Therefore, we think it is better to have a lawyer, an economist and an anthropologist etc. The different professions put together would make a real difference in the course of discussion. We also believe in having representation of different age groups and gender. It can be challenging at first, but the end result is worth it.
Mongolia and Switzerland are not exactly neighbors - quite far away in fact. My family had the same question for me about going to Mongolia.
We can think of it as a democratic system. You do not have just one party or two ruling parties. A number of parties work together, and they have to find a common solution. We have seven people in our government, each from different parties, and they have to find one common solution to present to the Parliament. In parliament, all the different parties have to discuss and agree on a solution. It is the richness of the different opinions that add value to this process.
Why did I come to Mongolia? A good question. Mongolia and Switzerland are not exactly neighbors - quite far away in fact. My family had the same question for me about going to Mongolia. Before coming here, I was working in Pakistan, a challenging place. We, as state employees, regardless of our position, stay at one place for a maximum four years and then rotate to another country.
-It sounds fair.
-It is also an effective way to prevent corruption and to share knowledge. You take your knowledge with you to the next assignment. I have been working in Latin America and Eastern Europe for about 10 years. So, I told my family “I do not see any problems, Mongolia is a beautiful country.
Everything I saw on the documentary film was exciting, and our programs are very interesting. We have a very traditional as well as new approaches to our programs. For example, we work on building energy efficiency, air pollution, and waste management projects. We have a good mix of different instruments. We are working on a number of projects with the government. Things are different compared to 20 years ago, when we mostly worked with NGOs, and small farmers, but not with the government. Today we are running an advanced program, using a different approach.
I told my family that Mongolia is the safest country in the world. I am very grateful to the Government of Mongolia, for the amazing work they are doing to protect the country and prevent COVID-19 pandemic. The numbers show that the government has made good choices.
I feel very lucky: I am in a beautiful country, with very nice people, a lot of sunshine, and it is safe. What else can I ask for?
-As you know, last June, the Mongolian People’s Party won the parliamentary election. The Chief of Cabinet, Minister Oyun-Erdene, mentioned during your meeting with him that in the development plan until 2024 MPP included implementing an e-governance system. How about Switzerland? Do you have such experiences?
-E-governance is an integral part of governance for us. It is one of the main pillars. If the governance is not healthy, the rest of the country does not work very well. You need a democratic country, and a strong government that has a professional and a technical capacity. We are talking about good governance practices, meaning that corruption is the main issue. People should expect the government to work in an organized, regulated way that obeys the law and rules set forth.
SDC is known globally for our investment in gender equality, protection of children’s rights and the governance sector. We are in the process of developing an updated strategy for the next four years between 2021-2024. We are transforming our diplomacy including a humanitarian instrument, and a bilateral development. We’re focusing on more commercially oriented initiatives such as public-private partnerships. In public-private partnership development, good governance is essential. If there is no stable economic environment, then the private sector will be a lot more hesitant to invest.
Switzerland, as a country, is not leading in the e-governance sector, in fact we are a little behind. I think the COVID-19 pandemic pushed us towards adapting to e-governance more. At our Head Office, we are taking big steps in that direction. In Switzerland, we have to work from home. The number of COVID-19 patients is increasing in Europe again. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs urged the public to stay home.
E-governance means access to data. It is a key part of our governance projects. For example, we implemented “Public Investment in Energy Efficiency” project and printed books. Public schools, and kindergartens are a part of our e-governance project. We believe that it’s important to have data transparency. It is not only the government that have access to data, but the public should also be able to access that data.
We published books to promote transparent budgeting. If the public is informed about the government spending, they can participate meaningfully in the policy-making process. Readers can follow what is happening in the education sector and education budgeting, and get answers to the question: “how is the government spending taxpayer’s money?” This also illustrates how well the government is functioning.
In Switzerland, the online system has been around for a while, namely for getting government issued certificates and passports. The bills are sent to your address and you do not have to leave your home. This eliminates the possibility of corruption. Everything is done electronically. You order and pay electronically, and the order comes in the mail.
In terms of data access, the public has been able to access data for a long time as well. I believe that the Government of Mongolia wants to promote e-governance, which is a positive sign. E-governance can help solve the problems related to lower level bureaucracy. The results can be very impactful.
Countries such as Japan, China are more advanced in the e-governance sector. However, regarding data access, we are ahead. For example, we can check our water quality through the system in my village. If the water quality is not good, people demand improvements. We are also informed about the government spending at the village and the national level. In other words, where is my tax money going? All that data is available to the public. Data access is the basis of democratic decision-making process.
-What are the main themes or sectors of focus for SDC until 2024?
-Our investment between 2018-2021 will be around 50 million francs. We are focusing on making the ongoing projects sustainable. We would like to put more efforts in our inclusive and sustainable vegetable cultivation and marketing project. We are trying to see where we can support the market at the national level, as well as in the international market. We just had the first meeting with the Mongolian Chamber of Commerce and Industry to see how we could support them and how we could work together.
Similarly, we will also look at the interests for Swiss brands, Swiss businesses and companies to come to Mongolia. The environment conducive to investment has to be here. As I said before, governance issues can be discouraging for potential investors.
I will be working over the next four years specifically to see if stronger connections can be made between the two countries’ research institutions. We would like to see technical research collaborations between research centers and companies. For example, Switzerland is known for its research on air pollution, and water management. Universities of Excellences is one of the top universities in the world. They have strong programs in medicine, mathematics, physics and engineering. They also offer scholarships, although only for PhD degrees. Even though we do not have private universities, the public universities are really good.
What I want to focus on is to make sure that the SDC program is concluded in a sustainable and responsible way. In other words, we would like to see a gradual process where our partners in the Mongolian Government are prepared to carry on the impacts of our programs.
We have top-level knowledge on water management and climate change issues. We want to bring in these knowledge and experiences to Mongolia.
-I know that the SDC has been doing humanitarian work since 2001 and established a Cooperation Office here in 2004. You mentioned in meetings with ministers that starting in 2024, the relationship between the two countries will be taking another step. Can you tell us more about it? Would the Cooperation Office in Mongolian be closed?
-The physical office will be closed. However, SDC will continue to be present. We will work indirectly through multilateral organizations such as UNDP, WHO, UNFPA, UNESCO, UNICEF and development banks in Mongolia. Switzerland is still one of the key contributors for these agencies, and we will continue to be one. For example, the donors created a COVID-19 response fund consisting of multi-donors. The UNDP Head Office will use this fund to assist the COVID-19 response here in Mongolia.
We strongly believe in SDG-2030. Mongolian and Swiss Governments both signed this document and now we share common goals. Achieving SDG-2030 is one of the core contributions that we would like to make. I personally hope that SDC is one of the instruments of our foreign policy. I hope to carry on the conversations on the import-export, networking, and connecting institutions and so on.
Mongolia and Switzerland established diplomatic relationship in 1964. Both countries are land locked and are surrounded by very powerful neighbors. We border Germany, France and Italy. We have similar problems and approaches. At the political level, relationships between Mongolia and Switzerland will continue – such as the political exchanges which we already established, and the meetings we hold every year in Bern or in Ulaanbaatar. Our embassy is in Beijing and that probably will not change.
-Your budget decreased slightly since 2015. What is the next four years’ budget for SDC?
-I can say that we still have a budget. It may not be a significant amount. A budget of 3 million or 5 million does not make a big difference. However, I believe that it is not the budget that makes the biggest difference. Human resources, the team, our efforts, our energies, and our knowledge are all what makes the difference and our team will stay.
Of course, our budget is small. Still, I think what we can bring our countries together. We have top-level knowledge on water management and climate change issues. We want to bring in these knowledge and experiences to Mongolia.
Switzerland committed to the SDG-2030. For this reason, we are focusing on the poorest countries in the world. This is another reason that the Swiss government decided to move our office to another country, namely increasing funding in some of the African countries. We are closing down all the Latin American country offices. Even countries like Nicaragua and Honduras where the situation is still really difficult. They have a much higher poverty rate. Mongolia is, of course, doing much better than some African countries. So, we decided to phase out in 2024 with the bilateral instruments.
When you work internationally, you also account for administration and monitoring costs. If you focus in 50 countries, you need much more funding. Reducing the cost of administration, for example by reducing the number of countries to ten, can make spending the same 100 dollars much more effective and efficient. We have always been criticized by OECD countries that we are losing focus and that we should focus on fewer countries. In Asia, we already closed the Pakistan office by the end of last year. Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Nepal offices will continue to operate. In Laos and Myanmar, we have been present for several years, although only through our Ministry of Finance.
In most Asian countries, we are not working in the health sector. Not because health is not important. When we start working in new countries, we are allowed only two domains of work. This is changing, and I think that will make our investment a lot more effective.
-Thank you so much.